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Sparky's unification fanatism - yalt - 10-03-2014

Sparky stop forcing ppl to be something they possibly dont want.
Also stop spamming ur fanatism mails:


From sprky:
Tremulous Unification Meeting


When: Saturday, October 11, 2014 at 1:00 pm United Kingdom time.
  Click here to help determine the time of the meeting at your time zone.

Where: The Acidtu.be irc channel on freenode.net: ##acidtube
Three possible ways to join: About the Meeting:  The purpose of this meeting is for gpp devs/admins/leaders from New Edge and from Acidtu.be to discuss with each other the following issues:
  • What are the current functions, projects, and goals of Acidtu.be?
  • What are the current functions, projects, and goals of New Edge?
  • What are our common interests/goals, both short term and long term, and how can we pull our resources together to help our common interests/goals?
  • How can we unify the Tremulous GPP, Tremulous 1.1, and Unvanquished communities to expand our community and player base, as well as encourage collaboration?
  • How can we attract new players that have never played any Tremulous based game before, and how can we encourage them to stay after trying Tremulous?
  • How can we continue to improve the game experience for the existing player base?

The meeting would start with an introduction of Acidtu.be by the Acidtu.be site administrators, then with an introduction of New Edge by New Edge site administrators.  The discussions would commence after the introductions.

This meeting is private, please do not disclose this meeting, prior to the close of the meeting, to anyone whom is not an invited participant.  Subsequent meetings may be public.

Invited participants:
  • ams (New Edge Site Administrator)
  • Kai  (New Edge Site Administrator)
  • dGr8LookinSparky  (Acidtu.be Site Administrator)
  • Pikachu (Acidtu.be Site Administrator)
  • GlobalWarming (Acidtu.be Site Administrator)
  • ViruS (Acidtu.be Site Administrator)
  • theinvsblman (Acidtu.be Site Administrator)
  • imp (Acidtu.be Site Administrator)
  • yalt
  • nalf
  • Mario
  • GuineaPig
  • TNG
  • Lucirant
  • KomanDDoSik
  • Finale
  • Stratos
  • The_ThInG
  • Val
  • muffin
  • Meisseli
  • Ghost
  • Muze
  • Breakz
  • Igneel
  • MosinNagant
  • Vonrahk

Meeting Rules:  To ensure that the meeting is productive and yields good results, all participants must adhere to the following rules during the meeting:
  • Be respectful to all other participants
  • No personal attacks
  • No fallacies of ad hominem, nor fallacies of appeals to authority.
  • No deliberate flaming
  • No trolling
  • No spamming
  • No filibustering
  • No impeding the discussion from being productive in any way.
  • Everyone gets a chance to present and discuss their ideas/questions/concerns, in a way that does not violate the above rules, without interruption
  • Constructive criticism is encourage
  • Everyone is free to voice any disagreements they have to ideas in a way that does not violate the above rules.
  • A participant violating any of the rules, does not justify another participant to violate any of the rules, every participant is accountable for his/her own actions.
  • If a participant violates any of these rules, said participant would first be warned, and if the violation continues, that participant would then be muted.
*****************

Im ofc agains any fanatism and unification processes. Also i hate ppl who try to force ppl in one big thing (like eu does all the time).

I see no need for this and therefore will develop my own stuff against any crazy-ideology. I am free and give ppl the opinion to choose. Without this you wont be free because you cant choose. Players can choose if they want to play on edge or cuboid /etc. I see no need to merge except sparkys attempt to create something he can put his name on.

-Bye and maybe some of you will see my new project in the future.


RE: Sparky's unification fanatism - grmg.pl - 10-03-2014

First of all, WTF is this crap:
1. You choose to ignore Yalt who built Edge ALONE but you do invite Mosin who can't code, has no deeper idea about the game and has barely any skill-in-game-wise. Seriously - Mario? GuineaPig (oink oink fuckwit with NO compehension whatsoever?). Did you choose to invite people using "oh well hes on my facebook list"? Big Grin
2. Where the fuck on this list is Peri? Where are the BT guys? Where's Tremor? Eddie? DarkMicropenis and his DragonAnalplug? (actually I'm seroius about them). Where's Shimazu aka. AGI? Where's Atomic, where's yah? Lava. Fink.
3. Where - at the very least - from Unvanquished side is Kharnov?
4. You want good input - invite people who know shitload about this game, not the ones who have admin level or are "polite and cool my firends"


On the positive side - this sort of discussion could bring positive results.

This meeting should happen, but I strongly reccomend you simply setup a private forum here or on acidtube. You people tried to coordinate scrims with 4(!!!!!) people for last few weeks and couln't really get it going. Use forum as it is EASIER to do it than coordinate 20 people in real time on IRC (which is great for discussing deep ideas, might as well use Trem console for this).




Quote:I see no need to merge
F1 with one counterpoint - you see - the Trem community as a whole could massively gain from merging the landing pages, forums and social media into one platform (and therefore any content put out by 1.1, acid or NE or Unvanq would promote all 4 by default - which is always a good idea with small communities) WITHOUT actually merging the servers and mods (which is a bad idea as it would simply make everyone want to pitch their ideas into one game and you might as well decide to make a new game from scratch, like Rota did).

TBH -  attend the meeding or participate in this "endavour" if it comes to frutution - as most of you people who "decide" stuff around Trem could learn a bit or two from eachother. Especially from Kharnov.


RE: Sparky's unification fanatism - dGr8LookinSparky - 10-03-2014

I have invited you to this meeting, yalt, because ams and Kai thought that you would add to the conversation.  This meeting has already been mutually coordinated and planned by  ams, Kai, myself, GlobalWarming, Pikachu, and ViruS.  You have made it very clear to to me since you have returned and even now that you have made many assumptions and you do not understand this project nor me.  You might understand if you attended the meeting with an open mind.  Also with a full understanding of this project perhaps you could attack my ideas directly with sound arguments rather than using fallacies of straw man, ad hominem, and appeals to authority.  I'm not afraid of having my ideas attacked with sound reasoning, because if they are good ideas, they would hold up, and if they don't, I would be interested in finding better ideas.

By unification I am talking about unifying the communities of 1.1, GPP, and Unvanquished, so that players/admins/devs from all three games would have open communications with each other, freely play any of the 3 games, and easily help with each other on any potential collaborations.  I am also interested in anything that would increase our player base, and improve the gaming experience to make the game more exciting and more fun for even the current players that are very familiar with the game.

Contrary to yalt's confusion, I'm not looking to have some central control over mods, nor am I pushing to have some kind of Edge Cuboid Frankenstein mod.  Acidtu.be is about a lot more than the mods it supports.  Also I don't care about credit, nor fame, nor money, it should be obvious that Tremulous is not the place to find any of those.  I'm applying my effort, skills, and time to these projects because I love the game, and I love the community.

Acidtu.be and New Edge do have common interests, if someone new comes to gpp and try out one server, they will try out the other servers at least once.  What good is competition if the player base you are competing over is small and not growing?  If anything my objectives would create an environment favourable to increased competition and more choices by increasing our player base, bringing in more developers, bringing in more server owners, bringing in new ideas from these new people, and creating new and improved tools to help everyone thrive in the game and behind the scenes.

It is possible to have competition and decentralization, with cooperation and collaboration.  In fact all four of those things are essential in a free and open source game like Tremulous.

Another thing is having a great product is not sufficient to get that product to the end user.

Btw I was originally suggesting to have this meeting public, which would mean I would just have had to post the notice on a thread on both forums, however, ams and Kai thought that it would be best to have this first meeting private, which means that I had to send invitations to each individual on the the list.  This meeting is still happening, and you are still welcomed to attened and participate yalt, provided that you follow the rules of the meeting like I'm sure everyone else participating will.


RE: Sparky's unification fanatism - yalt - 10-03-2014

(10-03-2014, 10:50 AM)dGr8LookinSparky Wrote: [Image: mitt-romney-meme-excuse-me-finish-lying.jpg]



RE: Sparky's unification fanatism - grmg.pl - 10-03-2014

F1 Sparky.

Or just nerf Chain and Trample instead Big Grin


Quote:Another thing is having a great product is not sufficient to get that product to the end user.
So true. You are ALL in marketing and social media, you only have different products. Not "Product >>> Marketing" but "Marketing >>> Product".


RE: Sparky's unification fanatism - dGr8LookinSparky - 10-03-2014

Btw AquaPuppy from 1.1 should also be on the list since it was her idea to work on unifying the the communities of all three games, and afterwards I did notify her as well, idk if she would be able to attend yet though.  But the list is now moot anyways since it seems the meeting is now public, maybe yalt already helped the project by publicly posting the notice Wink .  So everyone is welcome to attend, just make sure you follow the rules. Latter meetings we would also be looking to include more Unvanquished and 1.1 people, this meeting is still primarily about gpp's role.

I've just noticed that yalt crossed out his name in his "quote" of the notice for the meeting.  Here is the original notice unedited:
Tremulous Unification Meeting

When: Saturday, October 11, 2014 at 1:00 pm United Kingdom time.
 Click here to help determine the time of the meeting at your time zone.

Where: The Acidtu.be irc channel on freenode.net: ##acidtube
Three possible ways to join:
About the Meeting:  The purpose of this meeting is for gpp devs/admins/leaders from New Edge and from Acidtu.be to discuss with each other the following issues:
  • What are the current functions, projects, and goals of Acidtu.be?
  • What are the current functions, projects, and goals of New Edge?
  • What are our common interests/goals, both short term and long term, and how can we pull our resources together to help our common interests/goals?
  • How can we unify the Tremulous GPP, Tremulous 1.1, and Unvanquished communities to expand our community and player base, as well as encourage collaboration?
  • How can we attract new players that have never played any Tremulous based game before, and how can we encourage them to stay after trying Tremulous?
  • How can we continue to improve the game experience for the existing player base?

The meeting would start with an introduction of Acidtu.be by the Acidtu.be site administrators, then with an introduction of New Edge by New Edge site administrators.  The discussions would commence after the introductions.

This meeting is private, please do not disclose this meeting, prior to the close of the meeting, to anyone whom is not an invited participant.  Subsequent meetings may be public.

Invited participants:
  • ams (New Edge Site Administrator)
  • Kai  (New Edge Site Administrator)
  • dGr8LookinSparky  (Acidtu.be Site Administrator)
  • Pikachu (Acidtu.be Site Administrator)
  • GlobalWarming (Acidtu.be Site Administrator)
  • ViruS (Acidtu.be Site Administrator)
  • theinvsblman (Acidtu.be Site Administrator)
  • imp (Acidtu.be Site Administrator)
  • yalt
  • nalf
  • Mario
  • GuineaPig
  • TNG
  • Lucirant
  • KomanDDoSik
  • Finale
  • Stratos
  • The_ThInG
  • Val
  • muffin
  • Meisseli
  • Ghost
  • Muze
  • Breakz
  • Igneel
  • MosinNagant
  • Vonrahk

Meeting Rules:  To ensure that the meeting is productive and yields good results, all participants must adhere to the following rules during the meeting:
  • Be respectful to all other participants
  • No personal attacks
  • No fallacies of ad hominem, nor fallacies of appeals to authority.
  • No deliberate flaming
  • No trolling
  • No spamming
  • No filibustering
  • No impeding the discussion from being productive in any way.
  • Everyone gets a chance to present and discuss their ideas/questions/concerns, in a way that does not violate the above rules, without interruption
  • Constructive criticism is encourage
  • Everyone is free to voice any disagreements they have to ideas in a way that does not violate the above rules.
  • A participant violating any of the rules, does not justify another participant to violate any of the rules, every participant is accountable for his/her own actions.
  • If a participant violates any of these rules, said participant would first be warned, and if the violation continues, that participant would then be muted.



RE: Sparky's unification fanatism - ViruS - 10-03-2014

This is actually the first time I've seen Yalt go spaztic. Yalt, why do you not like him? Personally I prefer to hear both sides of the arguement before I take a side, so my opinion on you is still neutral.
(10-03-2014, 10:59 AM)grmg.pl Wrote: Or just nerf Chain and Trample instead Big Grin
Huh? I thought this was an EDGE-specific complaint
(10-03-2014, 10:36 AM)grmg.pl Wrote: 1. You choose to ignore Yalt who built Edge ALONE but you do invite Mosin who can't code, has no deeper idea about the game and has barely any skill-in-game-wise. Seriously - Mario? GuineaPig (oink oink fuckwit with NO compehension whatsoever?). Did you choose to invite people using "oh well hes on my facebook list"? Big Grin
2. Where the fuck on this list is Peri? Where are the BT guys? Where's Tremor? Eddie? DarkMicropenis and his DragonAnalplug? (actually I'm seroius about them). Where's Shimazu aka. AGI? Where's Atomic, where's yah? Lava. Fink.
3. Where - at the very least - from Unvanquished side is Kharnov?
4. You want good input - invite people who know shitload about this game, not the ones who have admin level or are "polite and cool my firends"
1. He did include Yalt. He got the private message, he just edited the message before posting the initial post here.
2. Honestly I don't know any of those except Peri but maybe it's because they only play EDGE, and I don't honestly play tremulous much these days.
3. We haven't actually started expanding to Unvanquished and 1.1. It's like suggesting Tremulous 1.2 Gameplay Preview = The full tremulous 1.2 release, which it isn't, it's just a gameplay preview that even still has to rely on 1.1 assets - even a popular 1.1 client (tremfusion) probably has more capabilities than GPP but is still attatched to the old protocol system. In fact about a quarter of the "new" models in unvanquished were lent over from the abandoned Tremulous 1.2 project (with permission) and uses borrowed code from this 1.1 client too.
4. Yalt was actually invited for this reason I believe, and also because he still (or so I heard) contributes to the EDGE code and is also a valuable to the community developement provided he doesn't hold personal grudges. Me personally, I just manage the IRC channel and was one of the few who helped start acidtu.be's community as well as contribute limited code and logical ideas/solutions.

(10-03-2014, 10:36 AM)grmg.pl Wrote: 1. You people tried to coordinate scrims with 4(!!!!!) people for last few weeks and couln't really get it going. Use forum as it is EASIER to do it than coordinate 20 people in real time on IRC (which is great for discussing deep ideas, might as well use Trem console for this).
Honestly I don't even remember the scrim planning even happening. Maybe I was left out of some conversation, but it's not like I can attend scrims with my timezone and/or play.


(10-03-2014, 10:36 AM)grmg.pl Wrote:
Quote:I see no need to merge
F1 with one counterpoint - you see - the Trem community as a whole could massively gain from merging the landing pages, forums and social media into one platform (and therefore any content put out by 1.1, acid or NE or Unvanq would promote all 4 by default - which is always a good idea with small communities) WITHOUT actually merging the servers and mods (which is a bad idea as it would simply make everyone want to pitch their ideas into one game and you might as well decide to make a new game from scratch, like Rota did).

TBH -  attend the meeding or participate in this "endavour" if it comes to frutution - as most of you people who "decide" stuff around Trem could learn a bit or two from eachother. Especially from Kharnov.
1. Rotacak didn't make a new game, but he's in the process of making one. He still doesn't have a game, it's a binary statement.
2. Not all ideas can be implemented, there are compromises and logical problems. For example, in coding there are many restrictions in how a simple thing such as how a player steps up from a flat block, and if it is decided to step up or not even is coded. You can't just step up any block because stepping up involves teleportation and client smoothing. There are many variables that have to be noticed.
3. Kharnov was probably trained to be a public speaker moreso than Sparky. I love being a musician but unfortunately for me I wasn't trained enough so my musician career has practically ended already with my age and my current career which is too expensive for me to divert out of.
4. We aren't actually merging servers and mods. It would be terrible for me if the japanese server no longer existed as it would erase my reason to even look at tremulous GPP. All because of a silly bug in the unlagged code that prevents people above 400 ping from even being lag compensated, more or less the unlagged's inaccuracy and inconsistency as well.


RE: Sparky's unification fanatism - yalt - 10-03-2014

Quote:I have invited you to this meeting, yalt, because ams and Kai thought that you would add to the conversation.  
This meeting has already been mutually coordinated and planned by  ams, Kai, myself, GlobalWarming, Pikachu, and ViruS.
You have made it very clear to to me since you have returned and even now that you have made many assumptions and you do not understand this project nor me.

-wrong. There is no such project (u can put ur name on) also its ur crazy idea to unite everthing. Is also a slap in the face of any unvq developer that u want them to cooperate with tremulous or dead mods like cuboid. You have certainly no clue about the history of unvq and tremulous.
Unvanquished has nothing todo with Tremulous. They want to be DIFFERENT. Will u americans ever learn that u cant force everyone to do want u want? You are so arrgoant. Angry
Its ofc easy to announce that some1 doesnt understand this or that. Fact is there is nothing complex to understand.

Quote:You might understand if you attended the meeting with an open mind.  

-See above -> You are right, ppl who think different are wrong -> fanatism

Quote:Also with a full understanding of this project perhaps you could attack my ideas directly with sound arguments rather than using fallacies of straw man, ad hominem, and appeals to authority.


-I did so often and u played the sweet innocence who doesnt understood a word.
You want to unite totally different coms, you want to merge coms of different mods but u havent any coms to offer. All you say is heated air.
There is no acidtube com. Only thing you have is a forum with lots of dead content/projects. Wheres your playersbase? -> there is none.
And im not talking about every acidtube dev. Im talking about sparkys.

Quote:I'm not afraid of having my ideas attacked with sound reasoning, because if they are good ideas, they would hold up, and if they don't, I would be interested in finding better ideas.
-nice try. But you think that anyone here really believes that i attack you without any reason / valid points? I did edge, what u? -> respect?

Quote:By unification I am talking about unifying the communities of 1.1, GPP, and Unvanquished, so that players/admins/devs from all three games would have open communications with each other, freely play any of the 3 games, and easily help with each other on any potential collaborations.  

-the coms that exits are open. No1 gets forced to play somewhere. Again: unvq isnt tremulous so give up on that idea. Why would a great standalone game like unvq share his com with a dead project of sparky's?Also you lie. You were talking ingame about merging the code some weeks ago.
Quote:players of all three games


-U DONT HAVE ANY PLAYER - WTH IS WRONG WITH U?

Ofc there are some good devs like global warming but certainly not you.

Quote:open communications
There alrdy is even without any sparky. Everyone can take what he wants without asking anyone. Everyone can contact everyone to do stuff / work together. What is this argument u come up with? Does it even exist?

Quote:I am also interested in anything that would increase our player base, and improve the gaming experience to make the game more exciting and more fun for even the current players that are very familiar with the game.

-We alrdy have ppl doing that. Its also alrdy exciting. Talking about that i might add that this means that the project U working on are shit because u doesnt have any player base we can talk of ergo-> your features suck? So features wich suck from ppl who developed them should add their *knowledge* to unvq/edge to improve it? -> [Yeshaha]

Quote:Contrary to yalt's confusion, I'm not looking to have some central control over mods, nor am I pushing to have some kind of Edge Cuboid Frankenstein mod.  
Acidtu.be is about a lot more than the mods it supports.  Also I don't care about credit, nor fame, nor money, it should be obvious that Tremulous is not the place to find any of those.
I'm applying my effort, skills, and time to these projects because I love the game, and I love the community.

-Again: i have no opinion but im *confused*. -> fanatism / ppl who think different are BAD.

Quote:Acidtu.be is about a lot more than the mods it supports.
-> yes, nothing ppl enjoy, atleast stuff u are imvolved. Evidence? -> no playersbase
Quote:Also I don't care about credit, nor fame, nor money
A good word sir, therefore i suggest u to stop acting like the big boss and stop talking for everyone. Atleast for me i dont need any self elected Sparky-President who tell what i have to do.
Quote:I'm applying my effort, skills, and time to these projects because I love the game, and I love the community.


-> If you are so skilled then develop your own mod instead of playing the free rider. U like to play the boss right?

Quote:Acidtu.be and New Edge do have common interests, if someone new comes to gpp and try out one server, they will try out the other servers at least once.  
What good is competition if the player base you are competing over is small and not growing?  
If anything my objectives would create an environment favourable to increased competition and more choices by increasing our player base,
bringing in more developers, bringing in more server owners, bringing in new ideas from these new people,
and creating new and improved tools to help everyone thrive in the game and behind the scenes.

-lol, shows what mind u have. If u suck then improve. Stop whining and work. But u love to talk and manipulate ppl around u. EDGE's suggess i a result of hard work and not whining. If no1 is going to ur server then WORK ON IT / IMPROVE.
Should edge send every new player to cuboid to test if they like it? Wtf? Also this reveals ur core goals. U want to push ur failed projects. U dont care about edge. Ofc i do.
But u talk about OUR playerbase but in reality u means URs. Problem is: u dont have one. (again!)
More server owners for so few ppl? Bullcrap. You allure ams with these arguments so often its crazy. *If u cooperate then player swill come* May i point my finger to a very important point? ->sparky's playersbase<- and yes i know that it is also about attract NEW players but who needs sparky to go to 1.1 and spam COME TO GPP? I can do that too. no problem bro. Oh wait... that is one of sparky's holy skills? :O

Quote:and creating new and improved tools to help everyone thrive in the game and behind the scenes.


-To what end? Behind the scenes? We are a small com. We want to play a game and thats it. You want to make something that isnt
there and probly no1 needs. Problem is that the game is old and most players play newer games. Tremulous isnt a hard game to understand. We dont need tools to train them. Looks like u want to sell 'ur' botscamp as a tool to get into the business.
Also u are the leader of the acidtube movement? All u say sounds lie ME ME ME wants.

Quote:It is possible to have competition and decentralization, with cooperation and collaboration.  

-What u have to offer? I dont see much. EDGE can take everything that is alrdy there. So its about competition now too? U told me different ingame but ok. [competition -> nedge <> cuboid(...)] !!!

Quote:In fact all four of those things are essential in a free and open source game like Tremulous.

-in ur ideology maybe. You dont determine what open software is and what not. In the end its just sharing and we alrdy do. U can go to github and look at the edge code whenever u want. I even share graphics that are done from scratch / gave them away for free. So dont try to teach me what OS is about. I know better.
But this doesnt mean that we all are the same
and sparky is our president of our united-mods/com- of tremulous. What the hell you thinking?

Quote:Another thing is having a great product is not sufficient to get that product to the end user.

-Whitewashing ur situation. U are the master of distraction. Chapeau!

Quote:Btw I was originally suggesting to have this meeting public, which would mean I would just have had to post the notice on a thread on both forums,
however, ams and Kai thought that it would be best to have this first meeting private, which means that I had to send invitations to each individual on the the list.  
This meeting is still happening, and you are still welcomed to attened and participate yalt, provided that you follow the rules of the meeting like I'm sure everyone else participating will.

-Ofc it looks more legal if u say that everyone else or atleast kai/ams are behind this. but u are.
I will not be there. I hope no1 is because there is no need for this except u try to look good.
Why the hell should kharnov be there? Thats a joke. First u compare ur crap with edge and then even with unvq wich is ofc far ahead everything u ever did.
If i want to develop something with lets say global warming i know where to find him. No sparky needed.
I have no problem if some take edge and do something new with it. even if this person combines cuboid with it. If u take a look at the readme of my mod files u will find the lines wich gives to permission to do so (for free!). Without me this forums wouldnt even exist and we would still play rcz. Even cuboid wont exist in thie way it does now.
So saying that im against good ideas etc is more then wrong. Its a bad joke. Remember: i released everything i had, even more rotacak etc ever did. If some1 is open source then its me.  Am i wrong?

Sparky, your whole appearance looks competent and professional but your argumentation is not conclusive. We alrdy talked about all this ingame and it was the same situation. I think ur mission will divide the com even more.


And now because it was so funny, last meme for now (how i see sparky):

[Image: AnnaWinter.jpg]


RE: Sparky's unification fanatism - grmg.pl - 10-03-2014

Quote:He did include Yalt. He got the private message, he just edited the message before posting the initial post here
Ah, my bad then for lashing out. Sorry.

Quote:Honestly I don't even remember the scrim planning even happening
Scrims inside Edge.


Quote:If you are so skilled then develop your own mod instead of playing the free rider.
The thing is Yalt, Sparky doesn't want to develop any new mods. He wants to organize a meeting of "Trem vips" to see if cooperation would be possible between 1.1, Edge, Acidtube and maybe Unvanquished (not as one server, but more like "social" hub of everything conected to Trem).


Quote:ppl who think different are BAD
Unfortunatelly that's how most people see it. But - Yalt - nobody here wants to make all Trem brenches unified, the main idea is to see what other sides have to say about their games.

Quote:Acidtu.be is about a lot more than the mods it supports.
Quote:-> yes, nothing ppl enjoy, atleast stuff u are imvolved. Evidence? -> no playersbase
While true that Acidtube is geared towards experienced players and devs, the main reason for no playerbase is horrendous ping for almost everyone (300+). Acidtube hosted in Europe had some players every day.


Quote:*If u cooperate then player swill come*
If we cooperate and manage to create some "one coordinated marketing campaing" and build up a presence inside social media gamers community - yes the players will come.
Quote:go to 1.1 and spam COME TO GPP
That's not the point to get 1.1 people to switch to Edge. The point is - fresh players from outside Trem.

Quote:Tremulous isnt a hard game to understand.
It's not for someone who has a mind of a coder and/or years of playing experience much complicated games. It is hard to understand for 12 years old kids who are used to having thier hand held by every game since they learned to click Accept and Next during installing. That's the reality.

Quote:We dont need tools to train them
But we do need some kind of tutorial "mission" to show the basic concepts.

Quote:EDGE can take everything that is alrdy there
The best sports cars need drivers to drive them. Fastest car without a driver isn't gonna go anywhere.

Quote:Another thing is having a great product is not sufficient to get that product to the end user.
Yalt - hes right. I've been playing one other "almost dead game", as old as Trem and it took them YEARS to organize anything resembling a marketing campaing to attract new players, despite having a great game, with solid tutorials AND a training server AND a community in which EVERYONE helped EVERYONE. They had GREAT product, but had no understanding of a need to market it. 

Quote:Without me this forums wouldnt even exist and we would still play rcz. Even cuboid wont exist in thie way it does now.


So saying that im against good ideas etc is more then wrong. Its a bad joke. Remember: i released everything i had, even more rotacak etc ever did. If some1 is open source then its me.  Am i wrong?
That is why on the top of the page and inside Trem there is clearly written "Done by Yalt". That was all you who made it happen but understand that things are moving forward and sooner or later this kind of language will be as adequate and relevant as some American dipshit kids claiming that they won World War 2.

Consider involving whoever runs shit at tremulous.net


RE: Sparky's unification fanatism - yalt - 10-03-2014

Quote:
Quote:If you are so skilled then develop your own mod instead of playing the free rider.
The thing is Yalt, Sparky doesn't want to develop any new mods. He wants to organize a meeting of "Trem vips" to see if cooperation would be possible between 1.1, Edge, Acidtube and maybe Unvanquished (not as one server, but more like "social" hub of everything conected to Trem).
-Thats always a good reason to present. *I could but no need* Point is that he never developed anything important*. Therefore he should be abit humble. Also i disagree because he was talking about such stuff in the past (ingame).

Quote:
Quote:ppl who think different are BAD
Unfortunatelly that's how most people see it. But - Yalt - nobody here wants to make all Trem brenches unified, the main idea is to see what other sides have to say about their games.
-First, dont talk for everyone, thats sparkys thing. Second, misrepresentation. I replied on his point of view not on urs. U can alrdy talk about such stuff. Go to their forums. Done. See? Also sparky said different ingame. So sparky's whole idea he resents is not coherent.

Quote:
Quote:Acidtu.be is about a lot more than the mods it supports.
Quote:-> yes, nothing ppl enjoy, atleast stuff u are imvolved. Evidence? -> no playersbase
While true that Acidtube is geared towards experienced players and devs, the main reason for no playerbase is horrendous ping for almost everyone (300+). Acidtube hosted in Europe had some players every day.
-Your eu server is up for a while now and i never saw many ppl playing there. So there is still no playerbase. Also, grmg, u are now in their devteam too? *Make everyone registered part of the dev team to give them the feeling of being special to keep them on our server* -right?

Quote:
Quote:*If u cooperate then player swill come*
If we cooperate and manage to create some "one coordinated marketing campaing" and build up a presence inside social media gamers community - yes the players will come.
Quote:go to 1.1 and spam COME TO GPP
That's not the point to get 1.1 people to switch to Edge. The point is - fresh players from outside Trem.
-Well i looked in my crystal ball and - yep - they will come..
I never said 1.1 should come to 1.2. Sparky said and he alrdy did that. Remember: this conversation here is NOT ONLY based on the stuff written in my first post. You need background knowledge here. Also Edge can do own social spam missions so whats the point?

Quote:
Quote:Tremulous isnt a hard game to understand.
It's not for someone who has a mind of a coder and/or years of playing experience much complicated games. It is hard to understand for 12 years old kids who are used to having thier hand held by every game since they learned to click Accept and Next during installing. That's the reality.
-Thats not right and not proven. Also doing tutorial maps can be done very easily. There are always enough tuts on tremulous.net. This whole point is redundant.

Quote:
Quote:We dont need tools to train them
But we do need some kind of tutorial "mission" to show the basic concepts.
-see above

Quote:
Quote:EDGE can take everything that is alrdy there
The best sports cars need drivers to drive them. Fastest car without a driver isn't gonna go anywhere.
-Ur statement doesnt make any sense. What do u mean? Someone who know how to mod is able to use those code. A big sparky-happyworld-com wont change that fact - so redundant statement. Maybe i get u wrong.

Quote:
Quote:Another thing is having a great product is not sufficient to get that product to the end user.
Yalt - hes right. I've been playing one other "almost dead game", as old as Trem and it took them YEARS to organize anything resembling a marketing campaing to attract new players, despite having a great game, with solid tutorials AND a training server AND a community in which EVERYONE helped EVERYONE. They had GREAT product, but had no understanding of a need to market it. 
-We playing a free game here. We dont sell anything or do marketing in any ways. Your whole idea is megalomaniac. If you know how to do it why u still lacking players?
Edge is not a product. Helping other means to get something in reverse but u dont have anything u can offer (again!). No offence but thats how it is. I think botscamp dev would say the same otherwise they alrdy had taken some edge parts right?

Quote:
Quote:Without me this forums wouldnt even exist and we would still play rcz. Even cuboid wont exist in thie way it does now.
So saying that im against good ideas etc is more then wrong. Its a bad joke. Remember: i released everything i had, even more rotacak etc ever did. If some1 is open source then its me.  Am i wrong?
That is why on the top of the page and inside Trem there is clearly written "Done by Yalt". That was all you who made it happen but understand that things are moving forward and sooner or later this kind of language will be as adequate and relevant as some American dipshit kids claiming that they won World War 2.
Consider involving whoever runs shit at tremulous.net
-I know that my name is up there. Thats a redudant statement, again. That doesnt add anything to this conversation. But saying that sparkys ideas are the new big thing is supercilious. Who says that? Edge is moving forward. Again: fanasim: only ur way is the right way? This is just the desperate attempt to create something. Dont u think i know what im doing? srsly.

Quote:This is actually the first time I've seen Yalt go spaztic. Yalt, why do you not like him? Personally I prefer to hear both sides of the arguement before I take a side, so my opinion on you is still neutral.

-Im not spaztic. It is because this happened in past alrdy. (different game). It end up in a major fuckup. Everyone left. I dont want edge or nedge to end like this just because of a maniac.
Its not about a person it is about behavior. If no1 takes care of no-clue-guys then i will.

Quote:4. Yalt was actually invited for this reason I believe, and also because he still (or so I heard) contributes to the EDGE code and is also a valuable to the community developement provided he doesn't hold personal grudges. Me personally, I just manage the IRC channel and was one of the few who helped start acidtu.be's community as well as contribute limited code and logical ideas/solutions.


-At this point im not contributing any further before the sparky-issue is cleared. Again: its not because of personal grudges. Why does nobodies have so much power? I dont get it.

Quote:F1 with one counterpoint - you see - the Trem community as a whole could massively gain from merging the landing pages, forums and social media into one platform (and therefore any content put out by 1.1, acid or NE or Unvanq would promote all 4 by default - which is always a good idea with small communities) WITHOUT actually merging the servers and mods (which is a bad idea as it would simply make everyone want to pitch their ideas into one game and you might as well decide to make a new game from scratch, like Rota did).
-Diversity! If you want to present ur project then go to tremulous.net/forum and post it there. We dont need to put every forum into one trashcan. If this happens i will do a new project just to flip the finger towards sparkys face. Why has everything to be at one spot?



Quote:2. Not all ideas can be implemented, there are compromises and logical problems. For example, in coding there are many restrictions in how a simple thing such as how a player steps up from a flat block, and if it is decided to step up or not even is coded. You can't just step up any block because stepping up involves teleportation and client smoothing. There are many variables that have to be noticed.
-exactly.


Quote:3. Kharnov was probably trained to be a public speaker moreso than Sparky.
-Khar is afaik project leader of unvq.

Quote:4. We aren't actually merging servers and mods. It would be terrible for me if the japanese server no longer existed as it would erase my reason to even look at tremulous GPP. All because of a silly bug in the unlagged code that prevents people above 400 ping from even being lag compensated, more or less the unlagged's inaccuracy and inconsistency as well.
-exactly, also: diversity!